Discussion:
HTML-Posting fails with NNTP error message
(too old to reply)
Rainer Bielefeld
2017-06-18 07:44:18 UTC
Permalink
Hello,

on "de.comm.software.mozilla.nightly-builds" (subject: "Kein versenden
aus dem HTML-Editor möglich") there is a discussion (in German language)
concerning problems to send HTML-Postings.

I did my own tests ( <http://wp.me/p5Y2Xy-oH>, German language).

My question here: should news.aioe.org accept HTML-Postings for /de.test/?

Best Regards

Rainer
Aioe
2017-06-18 08:45:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rainer Bielefeld
My question here: should news.aioe.org accept HTML-Postings for /de.test/?
excuse me but your request sounds a bit unclear

now my server accepts messages posted (only) to de.test with "Content-
Type: multipart/alternative;" and a multipart section in html format

afaik sending articles with "Content-Type: test/html;" is forbidden in
the USENET world because many newsreaders are not able to handle them. If
you need this feature I can turn it on but you will have to be satisfied
with a local group (probably local.test). If you need it, please let me
know it explicitly
Rainer Bielefeld
2017-06-18 16:17:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Aioe
now my server accepts messages posted (only) to de.test
Hello,

no need to modify your server settings. The core question is whether
there are problems with latest SeaMonkey or Thunderbird Email clients
posting HTML posts if that is allowed.

I see that you managed to send a HTML posting to /de.test/, but I still
am not able to post HTML with SeaMonkey 2.53. My new error messages you
see here
<https://seamonkeyde.wordpress.com/2017/06/18/news-posting-aus-html-editor-scheitert-mit-stoermeldung-article-is-empty-%e2%9a%a0%ef%b8%8f%ef%b8%8f/comment-page-1/#comment-568>.

We now will have to check what changes in Thunderbird after your
Thunderbird/52.1.1 cause these problems. /de.test/ via news.aioe.org
with allowed HTML-Postings will be a good common test platform.

I will post our results here.

Best Regards

Rainer Bielefeld
(SeaMonkey QA volunteer)
Good Guy
2017-06-18 17:33:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rainer Bielefeld
Post by Aioe
now my server accepts messages posted (only) to de.test
Hello,
no need to modify your server settings. The core question is whether
there are problems with latest SeaMonkey or Thunderbird Email clients
posting HTML posts if that is allowed.
I use TB and I have no problems posting HTML posts. Some portals may
not accept and I suspect AIOE does not allow HTML.
--
With over 500 million devices now running Windows 10, customer
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.
Aioe
2017-06-20 21:35:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rainer Bielefeld
I see that you managed to send a HTML posting to /de.test/, but I still
am not able to post HTML with SeaMonkey 2.53. My new error messages you
see here
seamokey is *probably* sending your messages like simple html post
instead of incapsulating html text inside a multipart message

look at the following example

-----------------------------------------
$ telnet nntp.aioe.org nntp
Trying 46.165.242.75...
Connected to nntp.aioe.org.
Escape character is '^]'.
200 nntp.aioe.org InterNetNews NNRP server INN 2.5.4 ready (posting ok)
post
340 Ok, recommended message-ID <oic4bb$1jmu$***@gioia.aioe.org>
Newsgroups: de.test
From: Aioe <***@aioe.org>
Subject: test cleanfeed
Content-Type: text/html

<head>
<title>hhahhah</title>
</head>
<body>
This is a <strong>test</strong>, only a <code>test</code>
<br />
</body>
.
441 437 HTML post
----------------------------------------------------------

Good Guy
2017-06-18 17:43:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Aioe
because many newsreaders are not able to handle them.
"many" is a generalization. Most people are using latest newsreaders
like Thunderbird or SeaMonkey and they can read and write HTML posts.
Also, these newsreaders have a settings to read everything in plain
text. I can post pictures if somebody wants to know how to do this.

People on newsgroups have a tendency to complain about almost
everything. They should be told in no uncertain terms that if they
don't like something then they should either stop using a particular
newsgroup or kill-file a user they don't want to see on these newsgroups.

People should be allowed to do anything on these public newsgroups but
users should also have the ability to use their kill-switch to filter
out some users.

In a society of nearly 6 billion people you will always find people who
do things differently. USA has the best approach in these things.
Corporations like YouTube, Facebook etc allows almost everything unless
the authorities asks them to remove something. Even terrorist material
is online or material that is likely to insult someone is also online on
those portals. They don't have rigid rules because they believe in what
is commonly called "FREE SPEECH".
--
With over 500 million devices now running Windows 10, customer
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.
noel
2017-06-19 05:19:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Good Guy
In a society of nearly 6 billion people you will always find people who
do things differently.
Back in day dot, no usenet server accepted html posts, that change was
brought about only _very_ recently, and only by a _very_ small handful of
providors, it is wrong of you to assume you have the right to post in
such a way, just like sending binairies to a text group.

Text groups are exactly that for a reason, adding html formatting more
than doubles the size of the post, since it repeats the contents wrapped
in html code, people reading text groups dont want eye candy, they want
content.

Allowing html also could be a kin to a backdoor to allowing certain
binaries, like as your example - pictures, which text servers reject (or
should) since they are not binary services.
Post by Good Guy
those portals. They don't have rigid rules because they believe in what
is commonly called "FREE SPEECH".
nothing to do with free speech, and free speech does not exist in most
countries.


-noel (who's used and ran news servers, including for national ISP's,
for over 25 years)
Good Guy
2017-06-19 18:00:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by noel
Text groups are exactly that for a reason, adding html formatting more
than doubles the size of the post, since it repeats the contents wrapped
in html code, people reading text groups dont want eye candy, they want
content.
That is why Newsreaders have a kill-switch. If you don't like HTML then
you can do either of these two things:

1> Use your kill-switch effectively;
2> Configure your newsreader so that it only reads posts in plain text;
Post by noel
Allowing html also could be a kin to a backdoor to allowing certain
binaries, like as your example - pictures,
Wrong! I have never attached an image in the post. Images might have
been linked but not attached to the post so get your facts before
belching another rubbish like this. In any case most newsgroups won't
allow you to attach images in posts.
Post by noel
nothing to do with free speech, and free speech does not exist in most
countries.
Then don't live in those countries. I live in Europe and we can say
almost anything we like as long as it is not defamatory, slanderous or
contrary to public security.
Post by noel
-noel (who's used and ran news servers, including for national ISP's,
for over 25 years)
What you did 25 years ago is no longer relevant today in 2017. HTML is
every where. Some news servers allow the use of HTML and they should be
congratulated.
--
With over 500 million devices now running Windows 10, customer
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.
Aioe
2017-06-19 21:20:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Good Guy
Wrong! I have never attached an image in the post.
true
a multipart article may contain a part that includes a base64 encoded
image (like emails)
Winston
2017-06-19 23:26:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Good Guy
I have never attached an image in the post.
Just because you haven't doesn't mean it can't be done or that others
won't if they can. It sounds like you do agree, though, that actually
including images in a non-binary newsgroup should not be done.

I was actually quite surprised when I learned that my newsreader had,
somewhere along the way, become *willing* to render HTML. Minutes
later, I tracked down how to turn that off and did so.

Still, how long before HTML posters adopt the email stupidity of a
text/plain section that says "to read this article in your browser,
click here" that's completely different from the text/html content?
Maybe include several links to advertising content, too, so that every
time someone reads the article, the original poster gets paid for ad
views, but then argues that because the article contained some on-topic
content, his articles should be allowed? And on and on... No thanks.

If a picture is needed, a plain text URL that I can follow if I
wish to is my preference.

JMO,
-WBE
Good Guy
2017-06-20 00:28:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Winston
Just because you haven't doesn't mean it can't be done or that others
won't if they can.
This is completely wrong. Frankly, some of you keep complaining about
everything but with half knowledge of everything. This is very bad
indeed. It is better to be completely stupid or completely informed by
first trying yourself to see what is possible and what is not.

You can have HTML features in a newsgroup but complete block of any
attachments. People can host their files on public portals and link
them here, assuming they have modicum of intelligence to do so.
Post by Winston
It sounds like you do agree, though, that actually
including images in a non-binary newsgroup should not be done.
I don't agree anything from you whiners!! The reason I don't attach any
images to my posts is because I want my images to be a permanent
feature; AIOE and others have 30 days cut off date. There is no
guarantee that after 30 days you'll have any of your posts; This 30
days is not a fixed period. Some have only 15 days or even less.
Post by Winston
I was actually quite surprised when I learned that my newsreader had,
somewhere along the way, become *willing* to render HTML. Minutes
later, I tracked down how to turn that off and did so.
You should be grateful to me for educating you!!!!!!
Post by Winston
Still, how long before HTML posters adopt the email stupidity of a
text/plain section that says "to read this article in your browser,
click here" that's completely different from the text/html content?
Probably never. HTML is here and likely to remain for a very long time
as long as we have Newsgroups like this one.
Post by Winston
Maybe include several links to advertising content, too, so that every
time someone reads the article, the original poster gets paid for ad
views, but then argues that because the article contained some on-topic
content, his articles should be allowed? And on and on... No thanks.
Actually, I don't see why people like Paulo not attach Ads to all the
postings done through his servers? It is a wonderful idea. even
Microsoft is doing and even Ubuntu guys are doing. Ads are here and
they generate revenues to run these servers. Paulo, have you thought of
doing something like this? You need to have revenue coming so that you
can continue to provide this wonderful service. I am all for it!!
Post by Winston
If a picture is needed, a plain text URL that I can follow if I
wish to is my preference.
Exactly that is what I am doing. All my images on Windows10 NGs are
links. they are not attachments. People can click on them or they can
view them in the post by turning on HTML configuration.
Post by Winston
JMO,
Hope you have learned something today.
--
With over 500 million devices now running Windows 10, customer
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.
noel
2017-06-20 07:06:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Good Guy
I don't agree anything from you whiners!! The reason I don't attach any
images to my posts is because I want my images to be a permanent
feature; AIOE and others have 30 days cut off date. There is no
guarantee that after 30 days you'll have any of your posts; This 30
days is not a fixed period. Some have only 15 days or even less.
Some of us have rention of over 5 years with capacity at present average
inputs to cater for another 15 years

And with bays free to triple that (assuming usenet volumes stay same -
which we all know likely will not happen) so your whining temper tantrums
will be in public domain for at least the next 45 odd years, in theory,
and in theory I could live that long, doubtful but possible, and whilst
I'm still around, and in charge, the switch stays on.
Winston
2017-06-20 19:37:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Good Guy
Post by Winston
I was actually quite surprised when I learned that my newsreader had,
somewhere along the way, become *willing* to render HTML. Minutes
later, I tracked down how to turn that off and did so.
You should be grateful to me for educating you!!!!!!
Actually, I already thanked you, back on May 25, for bringing this risk
to my attention, in AIOE article #6173, Message-ID
<yd1srd7ea6.fsf_-***@UBEblock.psr.com>.
-WBE
noel
2017-06-20 06:57:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Winston
Still, how long before HTML posters adopt the email stupidity of a
text/plain section that says "to read this article in your browser,
click here" that's completely different from the text/html content?
We'll quickly add rules to reject those posts ;)
Good Guy
2017-06-20 20:12:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Winston
If a picture is needed, a plain text URL that I can follow if I
wish to is my preference.
Or one could use something like this:

Loading Image...
<http://image.ibb.co/kTAR55/For_Idiots.png>


2 things needs to be taken into account:

1) the user must have some intelligence; Considering there are kids
here crying about nothing, I don't hold my breadth for this!!!!!111
2) My posts are better read in HTML to get the full flavour of the
message it contains; Again, nutters won't be able to do so they can
remain uninformed on this planet.

I shall continue using HTML and post images for people to enjoy; People
can use the above mentioned picture and work it out how best to filter
my posts. There is nothing for them in my posts and my posts aren't
meant for them. I don't educate people living in caves as they are
un-educateable.
--
With over 500 million devices now running Windows 10, customer
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.
noel
2017-06-20 06:55:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Good Guy
Post by noel
Text groups are exactly that for a reason, adding html formatting more
than doubles the size of the post, since it repeats the contents
wrapped in html code, people reading text groups dont want eye candy,
they want content.
That is why Newsreaders have a kill-switch. If you don't like HTML then
Kill switch is what _they_ introduced, its not something they were told
to do for html posts to be accepted.
Post by Good Guy
1> Use your kill-switch effectively;
2> Configure your newsreader so that it only reads posts in plain text;
how about I just continue what I nad most have been doing for over 25
years, and thats simply discard html posts :)
Post by Good Guy
Post by noel
Allowing html also could be a kin to a backdoor to allowing certain
binaries, like as your example - pictures,
Wrong! I have never attached an image in the post. Images might have
been linked but not attached to the post so get your facts before
belching another rubbish like this. In any case most newsgroups won't
allow you to attach images in posts.
touchy eh? They do say "truth hurts"
Post by Good Guy
Post by noel
nothing to do with free speech, and free speech does not exist in most
countries.
Then don't live in those countries. I live in Europe and we can say
almost anything we like as long as it is not defamatory, slanderous or
contrary to public security.
Now we know he is unrealistic, and just trolling, telling someone to move
countries?? FFS grow up kid.
Post by Good Guy
Post by noel
-noel (who's used and ran news servers, including for national ISP's,
for over 25 years)
What you did 25 years ago is no longer relevant today in 2017. HTML is
every where. Some news servers allow the use of HTML and they should be
congratulated.
No, its worked well for all that time, and despite some johnny come
latelies want to buck the trend and do it their way, does not make it "no
longer relevant", because it is, very much so, and will continue to be so
for a long time yet, if you want fancy eye candy, bugger off to a
facebook group, or find a mailing list for your desired tastes, about 50%
of them these days do accept html, but plently also don't, so its pot
luck if you get one.
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