Discussion:
Rogue cancel from miakibot
(too old to reply)
s***@free.fr
2022-05-04 10:07:15 UTC
Permalink
Hi,

I hope it's the good groop for this plaint.

Your server accept since few days the cancels from "miakibot2".

A lot of cancel from this robot is not legitimate cancel.
But it's a cancel war againt one person.
A lot of French users are not for these cancels which are not
consensual

You should know that that the "miakibot" has already deleted last year
more than 3600 messages from another person (Pierre) in a very abusive
way. This time his target is "Neo".

Please, block these cancellations of the miakibot of which a great part
is abusive or block the cancellations of the servers from which these
abusive cancellations come from (server ALPHANET which does not want to
do anything and produce)

sincerely yours,

Examples of recent abusives cancels:

Message-ID:
<cancel.t4h2np$18b$***@dont-email.me>
<cancel.t4h4hj$gkt$***@dont-email.me>
Paul
2022-05-04 16:32:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@free.fr
Hi,
I hope it's the good groop for this plaint.
Your server accept since few days the cancels from "miakibot2".
A lot of cancel from this robot is not legitimate cancel.
But it's a cancel war againt one person.
A lot of French users are not for these cancels which are not consensual
You should know that that the "miakibot" has already deleted last year
more than 3600 messages from another person (Pierre) in a very abusive
way. This time his target is "Neo".
Please, block these cancellations of the miakibot of which a great part
is abusive or block the cancellations of the servers from which these
abusive cancellations come from (server ALPHANET which does not want to
do anything and produce)
sincerely yours,
You want eternal-september.org

The address for correspondence/email is:

mail-complaints-to = "***@eternal-september.org"

******************************************************

http://al.howardknight.net/?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3Ct4h2np%2418b%241%40dont-email.me%3E

Message-ID: <t4h2np$18b$***@dont-email.me>

Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="567ad90b4411d4bd307d983d52254db1";
logging-data="1291"; mail-complaints-to="***@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/8bpji8EfGproVjviyQY8m"
User-Agent: MacCafe/2.07 (4D18) (macOS 12.3.1 (21E258) - iMac18,3)

Cancel-Lock: sha1:Td+2MwxvrwXpMoggioJJMbqSdR0= \
sha256:OVzsl0bFZRe8ztbKy3K5lwze9EBUmN29DL0/HTMK1LY= \___ This is not normal
sha1:H8zxdiknN5VL6cy1IDbFMe6TrQs= /

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_message

https://web.archive.org/web/20070502013009/http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-usefor-cancel-lock-01

"3.1 Adding an initial "Cancel-Lock: " header to a proto-article... <=== Does not explain it

Your client did not add excess cancel-locks to your complaint message.

As a result, perhaps try posting via AIOE and see if the cancelbot and
Rogue Server in the path, are damaging posts in that sequence
as well (somehow). AIOE does not appear to be adding a
Cancel-Lock header, and your posting might well survive.

Info posted on your cancel itself.

https://groups.google.com/g/fr.soc.politique/c/7O4QLZ9mM20/m/Omasx5f2AAAJ

Paul
>>>
2022-05-04 22:08:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
Post by s***@free.fr
Hi,
I hope it's the good groop for this plaint.
Your server accept since few days the cancels from "miakibot2".
A lot of cancel from this robot is not legitimate cancel.
But it's a cancel war againt one person.
A lot of French users are not for these cancels which are not consensual
You should know that that the "miakibot" has already deleted last year
more than 3600 messages from another person (Pierre) in a very abusive
way. This time his target is "Neo".
Please, block these cancellations of the miakibot of which a great part
is abusive or block the cancellations of the servers from which these
abusive cancellations come from (server ALPHANET which does not want to
do anything and produce)
sincerely yours,
You want eternal-september.org
******************************************************
http://al.howardknight.net/?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3Ct4h2np%2418b%241%40dont-email.me%3E
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org;
posting-host="567ad90b4411d4bd307d983d52254db1";
logging-data="1291";
User-Agent: MacCafe/2.07 (4D18) (macOS 12.3.1 (21E258) - iMac18,3)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:Td+2MwxvrwXpMoggioJJMbqSdR0= \
sha256:OVzsl0bFZRe8ztbKy3K5lwze9EBUmN29DL0/HTMK1LY= \___
This is not normal
sha1:H8zxdiknN5VL6cy1IDbFMe6TrQs= /
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_message
https://web.archive.org/web/20070502013009/http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-usefor-cancel-lock-01
"3.1 Adding an initial "Cancel-Lock: " header to a proto-article...
<=== Does not explain it
Your client did not add excess cancel-locks to your complaint message.
As a result, perhaps try posting via AIOE and see if the cancelbot and
Rogue Server in the path, are damaging posts in that sequence
as well (somehow). AIOE does not appear to be adding a
Cancel-Lock header, and your posting might well survive.
Info posted on your cancel itself.
https://groups.google.com/g/fr.soc.politique/c/7O4QLZ9mM20/m/Omasx5f2AAAJ
Paul
I am not sure to understand excatly what you said.
I make a test to send a message from AIOE
It was cancelled by the miakibot to.

The rogue cancel message:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Path:
aioe.org!news.alphanet.ch!alphanet.ch!miakibot!byreferences!cyberspam!not-for-mail
From: miakibot3 <***@miakinen.net>
Organization: miakibot
Subject: cmsg cancel
<***@consensus-omnium>
Control: cancel <***@consensus-omnium>
Date: Wed, 04 May 2022 23:42:15 +0200
Archive: No
X-No-Archive: Yes
Message-ID:
<***@consensus-omnium>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Followup-To: poster
X-Original-From: LaLibreParole <***@laposte.net>
Newsgroups: fr.usenet.abus.d
X-Original-Subject: Re: La philosophie du cancel sur Usenet
X-Original-Date: Wed, 04 May 2022 23:40:25 +0200
X-Original-Message-ID:
<***@consensus-omnium>
Xref: aioe.org control.cancel:1582821

Response to a cancelled article (byreferences)
------------------------------------------------------------------------


I Think the problem is not the source message, or cancel-lock but
the acceptance of the rogue cancel from ALPHANET server,
The abusive user on this serveur is: "<***@miakinen.net>"

But the ALPHANET server promote these rogues cancels.
This is why i write to server which newly accept these abusives
cancels of the miakibot2 or miakibot3.
Until April 29 or 30 "aioe" did not accept these cancels.
But now "aioe" accept them.
Plesae, stop to accept these rogues cancels.

sincerely yours,
Paul
2022-05-04 23:42:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by >>>
Post by Paul
Post by s***@free.fr
Hi,
I hope it's the good groop for this plaint.
Your server accept since few days the cancels from "miakibot2".
A lot of cancel from this robot is not legitimate cancel.
But it's a cancel war againt one person.
A lot of French users are not for these cancels which are not consensual
You should know that that the "miakibot" has already deleted last year
more than 3600 messages from another person (Pierre) in a very abusive
way. This time his target is "Neo".
Please, block these cancellations of the miakibot of which a great part
is abusive or block the cancellations of the servers from which these
abusive cancellations come from (server ALPHANET which does not want to
do anything and produce)
sincerely yours,
You want eternal-september.org
******************************************************
http://al.howardknight.net/?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3Ct4h2np%2418b%241%40dont-email.me%3E
    Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="567ad90b4411d4bd307d983d52254db1";
    User-Agent: MacCafe/2.07 (4D18) (macOS 12.3.1 (21E258) - iMac18,3)
    Cancel-Lock: sha1:Td+2MwxvrwXpMoggioJJMbqSdR0=                    \
                 sha256:OVzsl0bFZRe8ztbKy3K5lwze9EBUmN29DL0/HTMK1LY=   \___ This is not normal
            sha1:H8zxdiknN5VL6cy1IDbFMe6TrQs=                     /
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_message
https://web.archive.org/web/20070502013009/http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-usefor-cancel-lock-01
      "3.1  Adding an initial "Cancel-Lock: " header to a proto-article... <=== Does not explain it
Your client did not add excess cancel-locks to your complaint message.
As a result, perhaps try posting via AIOE and see if the cancelbot and
Rogue Server in the path, are damaging posts in that sequence
as well (somehow). AIOE does not appear to be adding a
Cancel-Lock header, and your posting might well survive.
Info posted on your cancel itself.
https://groups.google.com/g/fr.soc.politique/c/7O4QLZ9mM20/m/Omasx5f2AAAJ
    Paul
I am not sure to understand excatly what you said.
I make a test to send a message from AIOE
It was cancelled by the miakibot to.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Path: aioe.org!news.alphanet.ch!alphanet.ch!miakibot!byreferences!cyberspam!not-for-mail
Organization: miakibot
Date: Wed, 04 May 2022 23:42:15 +0200
Archive: No
X-No-Archive: Yes
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Followup-To: poster
Newsgroups: fr.usenet.abus.d
X-Original-Subject: Re: La philosophie du cancel sur Usenet
X-Original-Date: Wed, 04 May 2022 23:40:25 +0200
Xref: aioe.org control.cancel:1582821
Response to a cancelled article (byreferences)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I Think the problem is not the source message, or cancel-lock but
the acceptance of the rogue cancel from ALPHANET server,
But the ALPHANET server promote these rogues cancels.
This is why i write to server which newly accept these abusives
cancels of the miakibot2 or miakibot3.
Until April 29 or 30 "aioe" did not accept these cancels.
But now "aioe" accept them.
Plesae, stop to accept these rogues cancels.
sincerely yours,
Maybe Paolo can have a look at this one.

I would be surprised if Cancel was left blowing in the breeze
and uncontrolled.

http://al.howardknight.net/?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=+%3Culs57hta1s6esuhq50tat486a4estpq2et%40consensus-omnium%3E

Path: ...!news.mixmin.net!aioe.org!w17zEAFnflhCkP7jBwzYiQ.user.46.165.242.75.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: LaLibreParole <***@laposte.net>
Newsgroups: fr.usenet.abus.d
Subject: Re: La philosophie du cancel sur Usenet
Date: Wed, 04 May 2022 23:40:25 +0200
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <***@consensus-omnium>
References: <t4s4f8$cm4$***@dont-email.me>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Info: gioia.aioe.org; logging-data="21633"; posting-host="w17zEAFnflhCkP7jBwzYiQ.user.gioia.aioe.org"; mail-complaints-to="***@aioe.org";
User-Agent: ForteAgent/8.00.32.1272
X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.9.2
Bytes: 836
Lines: 0

Test
s***@free.fr
2022-05-08 21:34:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
Post by >>>
Post by Paul
Post by s***@free.fr
Hi,
I hope it's the good groop for this plaint.
Your server accept since few days the cancels from "miakibot2".
A lot of cancel from this robot is not legitimate cancel.
But it's a cancel war againt one person.
A lot of French users are not for these cancels which are not consensual
You should know that that the "miakibot" has already deleted last year
more than 3600 messages from another person (Pierre) in a very abusive
way. This time his target is "Neo".
Please, block these cancellations of the miakibot of which a great part
is abusive or block the cancellations of the servers from which these
abusive cancellations come from (server ALPHANET which does not want to
do anything and produce)
sincerely yours,
You want eternal-september.org
******************************************************
http://al.howardknight.net/?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3Ct4h2np%2418b%241%40dont-email.me%3E
    Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org;
posting-host="567ad90b4411d4bd307d983d52254db1";
       logging-data="1291";
posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/8bpji8EfGproVjviyQY8m"
    User-Agent: MacCafe/2.07 (4D18) (macOS 12.3.1 (21E258) - iMac18,3)
    Cancel-Lock: sha1:Td+2MwxvrwXpMoggioJJMbqSdR0=                    \
                 sha256:OVzsl0bFZRe8ztbKy3K5lwze9EBUmN29DL0/HTMK1LY=  
\___ This is not normal
            sha1:H8zxdiknN5VL6cy1IDbFMe6TrQs=                     /
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_message
https://web.archive.org/web/20070502013009/http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-usefor-cancel-lock-01
      "3.1  Adding an initial "Cancel-Lock: " header to a proto-article...
<=== Does not explain it
Your client did not add excess cancel-locks to your complaint message.
As a result, perhaps try posting via AIOE and see if the cancelbot and
Rogue Server in the path, are damaging posts in that sequence
as well (somehow). AIOE does not appear to be adding a
Cancel-Lock header, and your posting might well survive.
Info posted on your cancel itself.
https://groups.google.com/g/fr.soc.politique/c/7O4QLZ9mM20/m/Omasx5f2AAAJ
    Paul
I am not sure to understand excatly what you said.
I make a test to send a message from AIOE
It was cancelled by the miakibot to.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
aioe.org!news.alphanet.ch!alphanet.ch!miakibot!byreferences!cyberspam!not-for-mail
Organization: miakibot
Date: Wed, 04 May 2022 23:42:15 +0200
Archive: No
X-No-Archive: Yes
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Followup-To: poster
Newsgroups: fr.usenet.abus.d
X-Original-Subject: Re: La philosophie du cancel sur Usenet
X-Original-Date: Wed, 04 May 2022 23:40:25 +0200
Xref: aioe.org control.cancel:1582821
Response to a cancelled article (byreferences)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I Think the problem is not the source message, or cancel-lock but
the acceptance of the rogue cancel from ALPHANET server,
But the ALPHANET server promote these rogues cancels.
This is why i write to server which newly accept these abusives
cancels of the miakibot2 or miakibot3.
Until April 29 or 30 "aioe" did not accept these cancels.
But now "aioe" accept them.
Plesae, stop to accept these rogues cancels.
sincerely yours,
Maybe Paolo can have a look at this one.
It will be nice to see where is the problem.
There is a lot of abusive cancel per day from miakibot2 and miakibot3
Post by Paul
I would be surprised if Cancel was left blowing in the breeze
and uncontrolled.
Maybe the cancels are automatically accepted by "aioe" since the
implementation of the new ALPHANET feed?
Post by Paul
http://al.howardknight.net/?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=+%3Culs57hta1s6esuhq50tat486a4estpq2et%40consensus-omnium%3E
...!news.mixmin.net!aioe.org!w17zEAFnflhCkP7jBwzYiQ.user.46.165.242.75.POSTED!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: fr.usenet.abus.d
Subject: Re: La philosophie du cancel sur Usenet
Date: Wed, 04 May 2022 23:40:25 +0200
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Info: gioia.aioe.org; logging-data="21633";
posting-host="w17zEAFnflhCkP7jBwzYiQ.user.gioia.aioe.org";
User-Agent: ForteAgent/8.00.32.1272
X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.9.2
Bytes: 836
Lines: 0
Test
s***@free.fr
2022-05-04 22:11:10 UTC
Permalink
Paul a émis l'idée suivante :

On 5/4/2022 6:07 AM, ***@free.fr wrote:
Hi,

I hope it's the good groop for this plaint.

Your server accept since few days the cancels from "miakibot2".

A lot of cancel from this robot is not legitimate cancel.
But it's a cancel war againt one person.
A lot of French users are not for these cancels which are not
consensual

You should know that that the "miakibot" has already deleted last year
more than 3600 messages from another person (Pierre) in a very abusive
way. This time his target is "Neo".

Please, block these cancellations of the miakibot of which a great part
is abusive or block the cancellations of the servers from which these
abusive cancellations come from (server ALPHANET which does not want to
do anything and produce)

sincerely yours,

Examples of recent abusives cancels:

Message-ID:
<cancel.t4h2np$18b$***@dont-email.me>
<cancel.t4h4hj$gkt$***@dont-email.me>

You want eternal-september.org

The address for correspondence/email is:

mail-complaints-to = "***@eternal-september.org"

******************************************************

http://al.howardknight.net/?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3Ct4h2np%2418b%241%40dont-email.me%3E

Message-ID: <t4h2np$18b$***@dont-email.me>

Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org;
posting-host="567ad90b4411d4bd307d983d52254db1";
logging-data="1291";
mail-complaints-to="***@eternal-september.org";
posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/8bpji8EfGproVjviyQY8m"
User-Agent: MacCafe/2.07 (4D18) (macOS 12.3.1 (21E258) - iMac18,3)

Cancel-Lock: sha1:Td+2MwxvrwXpMoggioJJMbqSdR0=
\
sha256:OVzsl0bFZRe8ztbKy3K5lwze9EBUmN29DL0/HTMK1LY=
\___ This is not normal
sha1:H8zxdiknN5VL6cy1IDbFMe6TrQs= /

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_message


https://web.archive.org/web/20070502013009/http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-usefor-cancel-lock-01

"3.1 Adding an initial "Cancel-Lock: " header to a
proto-article... <=== Does not explain it

Your client did not add excess cancel-locks to your complaint message.

As a result, perhaps try posting via AIOE and see if the cancelbot and
Rogue Server in the path, are damaging posts in that sequence
as well (somehow). AIOE does not appear to be adding a
Cancel-Lock header, and your posting might well survive.

Info posted on your cancel itself.

https://groups.google.com/g/fr.soc.politique/c/7O4QLZ9mM20/m/Omasx5f2AAAJ

Paul



I am not sure to understand excatly what you said.
I make a test to send a message from AIOE
It was cancelled by the miakibot too.

The rogue cancel message:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Path:
aioe.org!news.alphanet.ch!alphanet.ch!miakibot!byreferences!cyberspam!not-for-mail
From: miakibot3 <***@miakinen.net>
Organization: miakibot
Subject: cmsg cancel
<***@consensus-omnium>
Control: cancel <***@consensus-omnium>
Date: Wed, 04 May 2022 23:42:15 +0200
Archive: No
X-No-Archive: Yes
Message-ID:
<***@consensus-omnium>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Followup-To: poster
X-Original-From: LaLibreParole <***@laposte.net>
Newsgroups: fr.usenet.abus.d
X-Original-Subject: Re: La philosophie du cancel sur Usenet
X-Original-Date: Wed, 04 May 2022 23:40:25 +0200
X-Original-Message-ID:
<***@consensus-omnium>
Xref: aioe.org control.cancel:1582821

Response to a cancelled article (byreferences)
------------------------------------------------------------------------



I Think the problem is not the source message, or cancel-lock but
the acceptance of the rogue cancel from ALPHANET server,
The abusive user on this serveur is: "<***@miakinen.net>"

But the ALPHANET server promote these rogues cancels.
This is why i write to server which newly accept these abusives
cancels of the miakibot2 or miakibot3.
Until April 29 or 30 "aioe" did not accept these cancels.
But now "aioe" accept them.
Plesae, stop to accept these rogues cancels.

sincerely yours,
Aioe
2022-05-09 12:27:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@free.fr
Hi,
I hope it's the good groop for this plaint.
Your server accept since few days the cancels from "miakibot2".
The alphanet admin asked me for a feed and I was stupid enough to set it up.
Aioe.org under the hood is a very old project, the code has accumulated
layer by layer and in many cases it is obsolete. At this point, it would
be urgent to modernize it.
For now, I have removed the feed with alphanet and that should be
enough. If you see other abusive cancel messages, please let me know.
s***@free.fr
2022-05-09 21:30:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Aioe
Post by s***@free.fr
Hi,
I hope it's the good groop for this plaint.
Your server accept since few days the cancels from "miakibot2".
The alphanet admin asked me for a feed and I was stupid enough to set it up.
Aioe.org under the hood is a very old project, the code has accumulated layer
by layer and in many cases it is obsolete. At this point, it would be urgent
to modernize it.
For now, I have removed the feed with alphanet and that should be enough. If
you see other abusive cancel messages, please let me know.
They dont't stop, only the path have changed.
Perhaps the Alphanet server admin has made many new feeds to propagate
his abusive cancels. Or there is another reason. I don't know.

Before 29 April, no cancel from miakibot pass to "Aioe.org"

The 8 may, the path of the cancels was:

aioe.org!news.alphanet.ch!alphanet.ch!miakibot!byreferences!cyberspam!not-for-mail

Now (after you stop the direct feed ?) the path of these abusives
cancels present on your server are:

aioe.org!usenet.goja.nl.eu.org!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!news.alphanet.ch!alphanet.ch!miakibot!byreferences!cyberspam!not-for-mail

or

aioe.org!news.gegeweb.eu!gegeweb.org!news.alphanet.ch!alphanet.ch!miakibot!byreferences!cyberspam!not-for-mail

or

aioe.org!news.freedyn.de!news.imp.ch!news.alphanet.ch!alphanet.ch!miakibot!byfrom!spewcancel!cyberspam!not-for-mail


Thank's a lot to have take time to see the problem.


--
Example of very recent abusive cancel
(the body of the initial message is not significant, it's only to test)
--

Path:
aioe.org!news.gegeweb.eu!gegeweb.org!news.alphanet.ch!alphanet.ch!miakibot!byreferences!cyberspam!not-for-mail
From: miakibot3 <***@miakinen.net>
Organization: miakibot
Subject: cmsg cancel
<***@consensus-omnium>
Control: cancel <***@consensus-omnium>
Date: Mon, 09 May 2022 23:24:21 +0200
Archive: No
X-No-Archive: Yes
Message-ID:
<***@consensus-omnium>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Followup-To: poster
X-Original-From: LaLibreParole <***@laposte.net>
Newsgroups: fr.usenet.abus.d
X-Original-Subject: Re: =?utf-8?Q?V=C3=A9rification_si_supp?=
X-Original-Date: Mon, 09 May 2022 23:24:13 +0200
X-Original-Message-ID:
<***@consensus-omnium>
Xref: aioe.org control.cancel:1583166
Aioe
2022-05-10 08:09:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@free.fr
They dont't stop, only the path have changed.
at this point i'm rejecting here every cancel that includes aphanet
inside the path but it's a workaround and i'm unsure whether it works
(cleanfeed subsystem that handles cancel is full of bug)

as soon as possible, cancel subsystem here urges to be updated

please, send me a notice if my current strategy doesn't work
s***@free.fr
2022-05-10 18:37:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@free.fr
They dont't stop, only the path have changed.
at this point i'm rejecting here every cancel that includes aphanet inside
the path but it's a workaround and i'm unsure whether it works (cleanfeed
subsystem that handles cancel is full of bug)
as soon as possible, cancel subsystem here urges to be updated
please, send me a notice if my current strategy doesn't work
I have just make a test.
The cancel message was issued by Alphanet (normal)
and the message was canceled on "Aioe" server too (not normal)
(The orginal message was post with aioe.)

The cancel:

Path:
aioe.org!news.gegeweb.eu!gegeweb.org!news.alphanet.ch!alphanet.ch!miakibot!byreferences!cyberspam!not-for-mail
From: miakibot3 <***@miakinen.net>
Organization: miakibot
Subject: cmsg cancel
<***@consensus-omnium>
Control: cancel <***@consensus-omnium>
Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 20:28:22 +0200
Message-ID:
<***@consensus-omnium>X-Original-From:
LaLibreParole <***@laposte.net>
Newsgroups: fr.usenet.abus.d
X-Original-Subject: Re: =?utf-8?Q?V=C3=A9rification_su_supp?=
X-Original-Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 20:27:12 +0200
X-Original-Message-ID:
<***@consensus-omnium>
Xref: aioe.org control.cancel:1583221
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



The original message:

Path:
aioe.org!w17zEAFnflhCkP7jBwzYiQ.user.46.165.242.75.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: LaLibreParole <***@laposte.net>
Newsgroups: fr.usenet.abus.d
Subject: Re: =?utf-8?Q?V=C3=A9rification_su_supp?=
=?utf-8?Q?ression_ou_pas_(was:_?=
=?utf-8?Q?[Avis_Au_Z=C3=A9t=C3=A9ticien?=
=?utf-8?Q?s]_Les_esprits_existe?= =?utf-8?Q?_=3F)?=
Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 20:27:12 +0200
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <***@consensus-omnium>
References: <62798496$0$18026$***@news.free.fr>
User-Agent: ForteAgent/8.00.32.1272
X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.9.2
Xref: aioe.org fr.usenet.abus.d:57326


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
llpminibot
2022-05-11 21:35:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@free.fr
Post by s***@free.fr
They dont't stop, only the path have changed.
at this point i'm rejecting here every cancel that includes aphanet inside
the path but it's a workaround and i'm unsure whether it works (cleanfeed
subsystem that handles cancel is full of bug)
as soon as possible, cancel subsystem here urges to be updated
please, send me a notice if my current strategy doesn't work
I have just make a test.
The cancel message was issued by Alphanet (normal)
and the message was canceled on "Aioe" server too (not normal)
I have just redone a test this evening, the miakibot did not delete
the message on your server. You have found the solution to the problem.
Thank you.
yamo'
2022-05-13 08:02:30 UTC
Permalink
Hi Paolo,
It is very probably La Libre Parole witch is writing.
Normally he is posting from free server.
Post by Aioe
Post by s***@free.fr
Hi,
I hope it's the good groop for this plaint.
Your server accept since few days the cancels from "miakibot2".
The alphanet admin asked me for a feed and I was stupid enough to set it up.
Aioe.org under the hood is a very old project, the code has accumulated
layer by layer and in many cases it is obsolete. At this point, it would
be urgent to modernize it.
For now, I have removed the feed with alphanet and that should be
enough. If you see other abusive cancel messages, please let me know.
You can refuse all that you want but these cancels are accepted by the
bigger server in France : Proxad (free.fr).

There is only a few guys which are macking a lot of noise on
fr.usenet.abus.d
This would be better with nocem but some servers still only accepting
classical cancels.

Best regards,
--
Stéphane
Sorry for my bad English and writing on a smartphone...
llpminibot
2022-05-13 08:19:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by yamo'
Hi Paolo,
Post by Aioe
Post by s***@free.fr
I hope it's the good groop for this plaint.
Your server accept since few days the cancels from "miakibot2".
The alphanet admin asked me for a feed and I was stupid enough to set it up.
Aioe.org under the hood is a very old project, the code has accumulated
layer by layer and in many cases it is obsolete. At this point, it would
be urgent to modernize it.
For now, I have removed the feed with alphanet and that should be
enough. If you see other abusive cancel messages, please let me know.
You can refuse all that you want but these cancels are accepted by the
bigger server in France : Proxad (free.fr).
Only because they actually don't refuse any cancel from any server.
I am not sure they continue in this way.
Post by yamo'
There is only a few guys which are macking a lot of noise on
fr.usenet.abus.d
No the true, you know it.
These abusive cancel are supported by few people,
But beware, these abusives cancelors are very active and they try to
intimidate the others.

Best reguards
Eric M.
2022-05-13 08:34:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by llpminibot
No the true, you know it.
These abusive cancel are supported by few people,
But beware, these abusives cancelors are very active and they try to
intimidate the others.
Best reguards
That's a strange way to see things, your friend "Every.Body" or
"Adners" posted personnal information on me so that a mad man can
harass me. Those messages were cancelled (too late) by the miakibot.
Miakibot which also cancels spams and abuses of various kinds like
openly antisemitic posts. You opposed this cancels because you say you
support freedom of speech, but what you do is try to constantly silence
you opponents (you cancelled me before it was forbidden by Free). But
it's too easy to change VPN and profile everytime you make this kind of
things, everyone is not a fool. I hope Aioe will see this.
Aioe
2022-05-13 08:48:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eric M.
I hope Aioe will see this.
Some user has reported me that a cancelbot, miakibot, is cancelling
legitimate articles. I don't know french usenet and i don't understand
french so it's hard for me to make some direct check. That cancelbot
sounds strange (mostly due the lack of documentation), aphanet admin
doesn't reply to my mails so i've made the decision to block it.

If it's filtering *real* abuses i could unblock it.
I react to complaints, i nobody complaints, everything is fine for me.
Eric M.
2022-05-13 08:55:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Aioe
Post by Eric M.
I hope Aioe will see this.
Some user has reported me that a cancelbot, miakibot, is cancelling
legitimate articles.
It's one or two users, always the same; samsung01, La Libre Parole,
llpminibot, always the same person.
Post by Aioe
I don't know french usenet and i don't understand
french so it's hard for me to make some direct check. That cancelbot
sounds strange (mostly due the lack of documentation), aphanet admin
doesn't reply to my mails so i've made the decision to block it.
Ah, Alphanet replies to my mails, so I don't understand what happened,
I will ask him.
Post by Aioe
If it's filtering *real* abuses i could unblock it.
I react to complaints, i nobody complaints, everything is fine for me.
There are 3 miakibots :
- Miakibot for spam.
- Miakibot2 for certain people who cause problem (massive flood and
other abuses).
- Miakibot3 which cancels the answers to this massive pollution.
You can accept only some of them. I don't know if it's easy. I would
suggest to accept them all, this has been discussed whatever LLP says.
Thank you for your answer.
llpminibot
2022-05-13 22:42:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Aioe
Post by Eric M.
I hope Aioe will see this.
Some user has reported me that a cancelbot, miakibot, is cancelling
legitimate articles. I don't know french usenet and i don't understand french
so it's hard for me to make some direct check. That cancelbot sounds strange
(mostly due the lack of documentation), aphanet admin doesn't reply to my
mails so i've made the decision to block it.
If it's filtering *real* abuses i could unblock it.
The version of the miakibot that follows the "French FAQ on legitimate
cancels" is useful.

But the author of the miakibot decided to go further in the cancels
and to pass in force and without any consensus of the hierarchy fr.*
So he created the miakibot2 and miakibot3 for these abusive cancels.

The ideal would be to allow the cancels of the miakibot
and to prohibit the cancels of the miakibot2 and miakibot3.

If however he commits himself not to use the miakibot anymore to make
abusive cancellations (3600 cancellations last year with the miakibot,
I can provide you the list of mids if you want to see)
Post by Aioe
I react to complaints, i nobody complaints, everything is fine for me.
This is a good philosophy.
llpminibot
2022-05-14 20:47:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Aioe
Post by Eric M.
I hope Aioe will see this.
Some user has reported me that a cancelbot, miakibot, is cancelling
legitimate articles. I don't know french usenet and i don't understand french
so it's hard for me to make some direct check. That cancelbot sounds strange
(mostly due the lack of documentation), aphanet admin doesn't reply to my
mails so i've made the decision to block it.
If it's filtering *real* abuses i could unblock it.
I react to complaints, i nobody complaints, everything is fine for me.
New abusive cancel from miakibot3 accepted by aioe.



----------------------------------------------------------------------
Path:
aioe.org!news.gegeweb.eu!gegeweb.org!news.alphanet.ch!alphanet.ch!miakibot!byreferences!cyberspam!not-for-mail
From: miakibot3 <***@miakinen.net>
Subject: cmsg cancel
<***@consensus-omnium>
Control: cancel <***@consensus-omnium>
Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 22:06:25 +0200
Message-ID:
<***@consensus-omnium>-------------------------------------------------------------
llpminibot
2022-05-20 21:34:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by llpminibot
Post by Aioe
Post by Eric M.
I hope Aioe will see this.
Some user has reported me that a cancelbot, miakibot, is cancelling
legitimate articles. I don't know french usenet and i don't understand
french so it's hard for me to make some direct check. That cancelbot sounds
strange (mostly due the lack of documentation), aphanet admin doesn't reply
to my mails so i've made the decision to block it.
If it's filtering *real* abuses i could unblock it.
I react to complaints, i nobody complaints, everything is fine for me.
New abusive cancel from miakibot3 accepted by aioe.
Why do you accept non consensual cancel from miakibot2 and miakibot3 ?
Post by llpminibot
----------------------------------------------------------------------
aioe.org!news.gegeweb.eu!gegeweb.org!news.alphanet.ch!alphanet.ch!miakibot!byreferences!cyberspam!not-for-mail
Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 22:06:25 +0200
llpminibot
2022-05-13 22:23:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eric M.
Post by llpminibot
No the true, you know it.
These abusive cancel are supported by few people,
But beware, these abusives cancelors are very active and they try to
intimidate the others.
Best reguards
That's a strange way to see things, your friend "Every.Body" or
"Adners" posted personnal information on me so that a mad man can
harass me. Those messages were cancelled (too late) by the miakibot.
Miakibot which also cancels spams and abuses of various kinds like
openly antisemitic posts. You opposed this cancels because you say you
support freedom of speech, but what you do is try to constantly silence
you opponents
This is defamatory !
Post by Eric M.
(you cancelled me before it was forbidden by Free)
This is defamatory !
It's easy to verify it.
Post by Eric M.
But it's too easy to change VPN and profile everytime you make this kind of
things, everyone is not a fool. I hope Aioe will see this.
No VPN, my ip is always the same: 81.220.41.16
And, yes, "Aioe" can see this.

I am sorry for "aioe" than french troll like you comme on "aioe" forum
to do the same misinformation than on french forum.
I guess that insults will be your next step as on the French forums :-(
yamo'
2022-05-13 09:42:13 UTC
Permalink
Hi,
Post by llpminibot
Only because they actually don't refuse any cancel from any server.
I am not sure they continue in this way.
How can you know that?
In the past they have filtered some cancels.
Only a newsmaster of free could reply but because of lack of time it is very
rare !
Post by llpminibot
Post by yamo'
There is only a few guys which are macking a lot of noise on
fr.usenet.abus.d
No the true, you know it.
No, it is your opinion.

I would prefer that miakibot 2, 3 post only in nocem.
Post by llpminibot
These abusive cancel are supported by few people,
But beware, these abusives cancelors are very active and they try to
intimidate the others.
On what do you base your argumentation ?

Best regards,
--
Stéphane
llpminibot
2022-05-13 22:07:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by yamo'
Hi,
Post by llpminibot
Only because they actually don't refuse any cancel from any server.
I am not sure they continue in this way.
How can you know that?
In the past they have filtered some cancels.
Only a newsmaster of free could reply but because of lack of time it is very
rare !
Yes, it's very rare.
For the moment they do what I said before.
Post by yamo'
Post by llpminibot
Post by yamo'
There is only a few guys which are macking a lot of noise on
fr.usenet.abus.d
No the true, you know it.
No, it is your opinion.
This is unfortunately factual.
The Mover, pehache, Every.Body, Alf92, Alex, Guillet and so on.
All of them want Alphanet stop the abusives cancellations.
Post by yamo'
I would prefer that miakibot 2, 3 post only in nocem.
I have suggested this to the Alphanet server manager.
He refused to do it.
Worse, he plans to use nocems on his server and continue his abusives
cancels on other servers.
I quote: (see: <t5hbnf$m9v$***@shakotay.alphanet.ch>
"the cancels of the miakibot will then no longer be executed,
but only via the per-user NoCeMs -- they will still be
transmitted to other servers)"
Post by yamo'
Post by llpminibot
These abusive cancel are supported by few people,
But beware, these abusives cancelors are very active and they try to
intimidate the others.
On what do you base your argumentation ?
On messages in french posted on french group.
In these messages the Alphanet server manager and the author of
Miakibot
are very explicit.

For example (<t3uph7$rfa$***@shakotay.alphanet.ch>):
"With pressure, including on AIOE, to clean a little"

For Example (<t5g79h$b2v$***@cabale.usenet-fr.net>):
"As far as eternal-september.org is concerned, I haven't had any
news yet.
We're not at the point of dizum.com yet, but if they don't
respond to reports of abuse it could end up with a UDP there too.

For example (<t5g7m6$bbl$***@cabale.usenet-fr.net>):
"But in case of a complete lack of reaction I agree to a
letter in German.
Ray Banana
2022-05-14 14:26:52 UTC
Permalink
Thus spake llpminibot <***@free.fr>

Hi,

I'm not trying to decide who is right and who is wrong and who started
all this mess (I've given up on that more than 10 years ago as it's
hopeless and a waste of time).

However, I would like to point out a few aspects for the consideration
of those involved in this religious war:

There are only two types of legitimate cancel messages:

1. Cancels by original authors
2. Cancels by the administrator of the server where the article was
submitted.

Additionally, some people or institutions run cancel bots for specific
purposes. These cancel messages have to be signed by a registered key
and server admins who wish to honor these cancel messages need to import
the keys into their keyrings in order to verify the authenticity of the
cancel messages.

*None of the above applies to the miakibots*.

As a consequence of rogue cancels floods, the vast majority of Usenet servers
nowadays simply ignore cancel messages or have implemented cancel-lock/cancel-key
checking in order to determine the legitimacy of cancel messages.

This leaves miakibot in the role of a masturbating chimp, pursuing his
own frivolous pleasure.

A final remark on NoCEMs:

These were never meant to be applied to servers, they were supposed to
be used by end users as suggestions to ignore certain articles.
This idea failed due to the lack of NoCEM support in news clients.

Apart from that, the same requirements (registered bots, signed messages)
that apply to spam cancel bots are also valid for NoCEM issuers.

Conclusion: Whatever the reasons for the miakibot activities may be,
they are using the wrong tools.
--
Too many ingredients in the soup, no room for a spoon
http://www.eternal-september.org
llpminibot
2022-05-15 18:56:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ray Banana
Hi,
I'm not trying to decide who is right and who is wrong and who started
all this mess (I've given up on that more than 10 years ago as it's
hopeless and a waste of time).
However, I would like to point out a few aspects for the consideration
1. Cancels by original authors
2. Cancels by the administrator of the server where the article was
submitted.
Additionally, some people or institutions run cancel bots for specific
purposes. These cancel messages have to be signed by a registered key
and server admins who wish to honor these cancel messages need to import
the keys into their keyrings in order to verify the authenticity of the
cancel messages.
*None of the above applies to the miakibots*.
As a consequence of rogue cancels floods, the vast majority of Usenet servers
nowadays simply ignore cancel messages or have implemented
cancel-lock/cancel-key checking in order to determine the legitimacy of
cancel messages.
This leaves miakibot in the role of a masturbating chimp, pursuing his
own frivolous pleasure.
These were never meant to be applied to servers, they were supposed to
be used by end users as suggestions to ignore certain articles.
This idea failed due to the lack of NoCEM support in news clients.
Apart from that, the same requirements (registered bots, signed messages)
that apply to spam cancel bots are also valid for NoCEM issuers.
Conclusion: Whatever the reasons for the miakibot activities may be,
they are using the wrong tools.
I agree with you.

Unfortunately I see that the abusive cancellations of miakibot have
resumed on "Aioe" server :-(
pehache
2022-05-28 06:40:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by yamo'
Post by Aioe
Post by s***@free.fr
Your server accept since few days the cancels from "miakibot2".
The alphanet admin asked me for a feed and I was stupid enough to set it up.
Aioe.org under the hood is a very old project, the code has accumulated
layer by layer and in many cases it is obsolete. At this point, it would
be urgent to modernize it.
For now, I have removed the feed with alphanet and that should be
enough. If you see other abusive cancel messages, please let me know.
You can refuse all that you want but these cancels are accepted by the
bigger server in France : Proxad (free.fr).
So what ? Proxad doesn't rule fr.*
Post by yamo'
There is only a few guys which are macking a lot of noise on
fr.usenet.abus.d
That's a lie. If it was "only a few guys", there would have been a
consensus for the miakibot2 cancels : as a matter of fact no consensus
has been obtained.

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