Discussion:
AIOE is suddenly rejecting crossposts to sci.physics. Why?
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kensi
2020-04-04 10:57:51 UTC
Permalink
AIOE is suddenly rejecting crossposts to sci.physics. Why?
--
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain
the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy." ~David Brooks
"I get fooled all the time by the constant hosiery parade
in here." ~Checkmate
Aioe
2020-04-04 11:15:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by kensi
AIOE is suddenly rejecting crossposts to sci.physics. Why?
because crosspost if forbidden due abuses
look at Message-ID: <r5t4ns$1ds8$***@gioia.aioe.org>
Sn!pe
2020-04-04 11:48:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Aioe
Post by kensi
AIOE is suddenly rejecting crossposts to sci.physics. Why?
because crosspost if forbidden due abuses
Do Usenet a BIG favour and ban all crossposts on aioe;
especially from Paul Derbyshire and his sock puppets.

aioe is heavily abused by trolls and banning all crossposts
would go a long way towards alleviating the problem.
--
Sn!pe
Aioe
2020-04-04 11:55:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sn!pe
aioe is heavily abused by trolls
why don't you send me a complaint each time that an abuse happens?
you say me that my server is heavily abused but nobody sends me any
complaint.
Sn!pe
2020-04-04 12:42:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Aioe
Post by Sn!pe
aioe is heavily abused by trolls
why don't you send me a complaint each time that an abuse happens?
you say me that my server is heavily abused but nobody sends me any
complaint.
Open your eyes, Paolo.

In any case, do you think that crossposts between unrelated groups
are a ~good~ thing? Ask yourself why aioe has a bad reputation.
--
Sn!pe.
Aioe
2020-04-04 12:55:20 UTC
Permalink
In any case, do you think that crossposts between unrelated groups are a
~good~ thing?
it's quite hard to predict whether a crosspost is between unrelated groups
Ask yourself why aioe has a bad reputation.
it has not a bad reputation, it's mostly used by italian users for
italian groups. Imho it's mostly a bias against public news servers.

BTW i can't check by hands about 1900 messages per day, if nobody
complaints, there're no abuses for me
Sn!pe
2020-04-04 13:23:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Aioe
In any case, do you think that crossposts between unrelated groups are a
~good~ thing?
it's quite hard to predict whether a crosspost is between unrelated groups
Ask yourself why aioe has a bad reputation.
it has not a bad reputation, it's mostly used by italian users for
italian groups. Imho it's mostly a bias against public news servers.
You are welcome to your opinion; I disagree.

I use a free public newsserver myself, as you can readily
see if you inspect my headers. The big difference is that
Eternal-September requires ~registration~ so that abuse
can be controlled.
Post by Aioe
BTW i can't check by hands about 1900 messages per day,
if nobody complaints, there're no abuses for me
Nobody expects you to check by hand, but there are
none so blind as those who ~will not see~

Over to you, Mr Philanthropist with your hobby newsserver.

[alt.free.newsservers added]
--
Sn!pe
Colonel Edmund J. Burke
2020-04-04 16:38:01 UTC
Permalink
You momma gimme good head.
LOL
b***@nowhere.co.uk
2020-04-06 10:45:26 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 4 Apr 2020 14:23:22 +0100
Post by Sn!pe
Post by Aioe
In any case, do you think that crossposts between unrelated groups are a
~good~ thing?
it's quite hard to predict whether a crosspost is between unrelated groups
Ask yourself why aioe has a bad reputation.
it has not a bad reputation, it's mostly used by italian users for
italian groups. Imho it's mostly a bias against public news servers.
You are welcome to your opinion; I disagree.
I use a free public newsserver myself, as you can readily
see if you inspect my headers. The big difference is that
Eternal-September requires ~registration~ so that abuse
can be controlled.
Post by Aioe
BTW i can't check by hands about 1900 messages per day,
if nobody complaints, there're no abuses for me
Nobody expects you to check by hand, but there are
none so blind as those who ~will not see~
Over to you, Mr Philanthropist with your hobby newsserver.
His "hobby" newserver is for people who arn't stupid enough to pay for usenet
access. But hey , you're obviously a jackass so no surprises you're paying
eternal for access.
Sn!pe
2020-04-06 11:54:16 UTC
Permalink
paying eternal for access.
+ + + E R R O R + + +

+ + + R E D O F R O M S T A R T + + +
--
Sn!pe
b***@nowhere.co.uk
2020-04-06 15:10:20 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 6 Apr 2020 12:54:16 +0100
Post by Sn!pe
paying eternal for access.
+ + + E R R O R + + +
+ + + R E D O F R O M S T A R T + + +
Oh so its free, well thats nice. But you still have to register and you're
still a complete ass for doing that instead of using a service where you
don't have to bother. But if it makes you feel superior knock yourself out.
Colonel Edmund J. Burke
2020-04-06 17:23:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
On Mon, 6 Apr 2020 12:54:16 +0100
Post by Sn!pe
paying eternal for access.
+ + + E R R O R + + +
+ + + R E D O F R O M S T A R T + + +
Oh so its free, well thats nice. But you still have to register and you're
still a complete ass for doing that instead of using a service where you
don't have to bother. But if it makes you feel superior knock yourself out.
His mammy gimme good head.

Grant Taylor
2020-04-04 17:42:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Aioe
it's quite hard to predict whether a crosspost is between unrelated groups
Possibly.

But I have an vague idea that might help. Though I have no idea how it
would play out, how effective it would be, or how many false positives
it would have.
Post by Aioe
it has not a bad reputation,
Aioe's reputation might not be as bad as Google Groups. But it does
cause me to question things, especially from remailers posting through it.
Post by Aioe
it's mostly used by italian users for italian groups. Imho it's mostly
a bias against public news servers.
I think Aioe's reputation is a little bit worse than Eternal-September's
when it comes to trolls and other undesirables. Perhaps this is highly
dependent on which newsgroup.
Post by Aioe
BTW i can't check by hands about 1900 messages per day, if nobody
complaints, there're no abuses for me
Your lack of knowledge of abuse doesn't mean that there is no abuse.

For me, a troll is going to troll, hiding under any bridge they fit.
They've not yet caused enough annoyance for me to bother sending complaints.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
Sn!pe
2020-04-04 18:54:45 UTC
Permalink
Grant Taylor <***@tnetconsulting.net> wrote:

[...]
Post by Grant Taylor
For me, a troll is going to troll, hiding under any bridge they fit.
They've not yet caused enough annoyance for me to bother sending complaints.
I cannot see how a troll-specific complaint could help,
considering that aioe does not require registration.
--
Sn!pe
Computer Nerd Kev
2020-04-04 23:41:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sn!pe
Post by Grant Taylor
For me, a troll is going to troll, hiding under any bridge they fit.
They've not yet caused enough annoyance for me to bother sending complaints.
I cannot see how a troll-specific complaint could help,
considering that aioe does not require registration.
Blocking all posts to the affected newsgroup seems to be a common
measure. Not that I can remember it ever occurring with a group that
I've then tried to post to.
--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#
Apd
2020-04-05 09:44:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Grant Taylor
Aioe's reputation might not be as bad as Google Groups. But it does
cause me to question things, especially from remailers posting through it.
Aioe is currently doing a good job at suppressing an anon-remailer
flood. Only a few posts are getting through.
Post by Grant Taylor
I think Aioe's reputation is a little bit worse than Eternal-September's
when it comes to trolls and other undesirables.
In fact it's doing a better job than ES which seems to be ignoring
the flood.
Aioe
2020-04-05 11:45:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Grant Taylor
Your lack of knowledge of abuse doesn't mean that there is no abuse.
you tell me that aioe.org is the trolls' paradise and at this point i ask
you an obvious question: which messages are abusive?
As long as you don't list me which messages you think that are abusive, i
can't check if they really violate my terms of service: they may not be
abusive, they may not exist.
I am aware that sometimes abusive messages are posted through my server
but they seem to be only a few if compared to the total number of
articles posted through aioe.org. As long as there are few abusive
messages, i have no way of realizing that there are abuses until nobody
warns me. If one day three hundred messages are posted on a group through
my server, i can be warned that there is a problem because they are too
many. If the messages are few, they are not enough to generate anomalies
in the statistics.
At the same time, i read many people who complain about my server making
noise but none of these people even write me a complaint at
***@aioe.org.
Reporting abuse serves to stop it. As long as i don't know there is a
problem, i don't take action to solve it. I am not active not because i
am negligent but only because nobody warns me that there are abuses.
Grant Taylor
2020-04-05 17:43:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Aioe
you tell me that aioe.org is the trolls' paradise
No, I did not.

I said that there are trolls using Aioe. I did NOT say it was a troll's
paradise.

Paradise implies friendly to trolls and ignores complaints and does
nothing to stop trolls. Aioe has shown that it is decidedly not
friendly to trolls and that it does take efforts to stop them.

I'm confident that many trolls are stopped. But I'm also confident that
some small number still get through. I've seen a few.
Post by Aioe
and at this point i ask you an obvious question: which messages
are abusive?
And I've stated that the few that I've seen have not been worth my
effort to complain.
Post by Aioe
As long as you don't list me which messages you think that are abusive,
i can't check if they really violate my terms of service: they may
not be abusive, they may not exist.
I'm not asking you to check.
Post by Aioe
I am aware that sometimes abusive messages are posted through my server
but they seem to be only a few
Agreed.
Post by Aioe
if compared to the total number of articles posted through aioe.org.
I have no knowledge of the total number of articles posted through Aioe,
so I can't comment on the ratio.

But seeing as how the numerator (number of abusive posts) is small, I
don't care what the denominator (number of all posts) is.
Post by Aioe
As long as there are few abusive messages, i have no way of realizing
that there are abuses until nobody warns me.
Agreed.
Post by Aioe
If one day three hundred messages are posted on a group through my
server, i can be warned that there is a problem because they are
too many.
If I saw that I would report it.

Seeing as how I have not seen that, I have not reported it.
Post by Aioe
If the messages are few, they are not enough to generate anomalies
in the statistics.
Agreed.

If the messages are few enough, it's not worth reporting anything.
Post by Aioe
At the same time, i read many people who complain about my server
making noise but none of these people even write me a complaint at
That's because the number of complaints is not sufficient to motivate
people to report them.

But that number is not zero.
Post by Aioe
Reporting abuse serves to stop it. As long as i don't know there is a
problem, i don't take action to solve it. I am not active not because
i am negligent but only because nobody warns me that there are abuses.
I don't recall saying that you are negligent. In fact, I think your
efforts, and responses in this thread, show that you are the opposite of
negligent. You do try to stop, or at least slow, the tide of abuse.
But as you say, you can not stop all of the abuse. Thus, there are some
abuse posts that do get out.

Since someone else brought it up, I am stating that there are some
(small number) of abuse posts from Aioe.

That small number is not sufficient to motivate me to report them.

But there are some abuse posts from Aioe.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
Aioe
2020-04-06 08:28:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Grant Taylor
I have no knowledge of the total number of articles posted through Aioe,
so I can't comment on the ratio.
they're at https://news.aioe.org/stats/innreport-reports/
Computer Nerd Kev
2020-04-04 23:52:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sn!pe
Do Usenet a BIG favour and ban all crossposts on aioe;
especially from Paul Derbyshire and his sock puppets.
aioe is heavily abused by trolls and banning all crossposts
would go a long way towards alleviating the problem.
Google Groups clearly doesn't support crossposting, yet most of the
outright spam/trolling that I see comes from there. So clearly
preventing crossposts doesn't go very far at all towards alleviating
the problem.

It also means that genuine crossposted discussions would get broken
up, as they already do by Google Groups posters, because replies by
Aioe users would only be seen (and likely replied to) within one of
the crossposted groups.

Plus even though I'm still wary of it myself, crossposting does get
more useful as the Usenet user base shrinks.

I for one would change to another newsserver if Aioe stopped all
support for crossposting.
--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#
Sn!pe
2020-04-04 23:58:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Computer Nerd Kev
Post by Sn!pe
Do Usenet a BIG favour and ban all crossposts on aioe;
especially from Paul Derbyshire and his sock puppets.
aioe is heavily abused by trolls and banning all crossposts
would go a long way towards alleviating the problem.
Google Groups clearly doesn't support crossposting, yet most of the
outright spam/trolling that I see comes from there. So clearly
preventing crossposts doesn't go very far at all towards alleviating
the problem.
It also means that genuine crossposted discussions would get broken
up, as they already do by Google Groups posters, because replies by
Aioe users would only be seen (and likely replied to) within one of
the crossposted groups.
Plus even though I'm still wary of it myself, crossposting does get
more useful as the Usenet user base shrinks.
I for one would change to another newsserver if Aioe stopped all
support for crossposting.
A reasonable compromise would be to prevent crossposting
between unrelated groups. If that was too difficult for
Paolo, between unrelated hierachies.
--
^Ï^ My pet rock Gordon just is.
Grant Taylor
2020-04-05 03:56:41 UTC
Permalink
A reasonable compromise would be to prevent crossposting between
unrelated groups. If that was too difficult for Paolo, between
unrelated hierachies.
What groups are related and unrelated? There are ~46 thousand
newsgroups in my server's active file. There are a LOT of combinations.

I see related groups in different hierarchies. E.g.
alt.engineering.electrical and sci.engr.electrical.*
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
Sn!pe
2020-04-05 07:06:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Grant Taylor
A reasonable compromise would be to prevent crossposting between
unrelated groups. If that was too difficult for Paolo, between
unrelated hierachies.
What groups are related and unrelated? There are ~46 thousand
newsgroups in my server's active file. There are a LOT of combinations.
I see related groups in different hierarchies. E.g.
alt.engineering.electrical and sci.engr.electrical.*
Then ban crossposts altogether. In any case, I thought aioe's
mission was to provide Usenet access to people in repressive
regimes who have no other way to get on; do those people need
to crosspost?
--
Sn!pe
Grant Taylor
2020-04-05 17:48:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sn!pe
Then ban crossposts altogether.
No. I will absolutely NOT ban cross posting altogether.

I view cross posting as a good thing when used responsibly.
Post by Sn!pe
In any case, I thought aioe's mission was to provide Usenet access
to people in repressive regimes who have no other way to get on;
I have always viewed Aioe as a general purpose Usenet server for anybody
that wants to use it. The only focus that I'm aware of is Italians /
Italy where (I believe) it is located.
Post by Sn!pe
do those people need to crosspost?
Sure.

Why not?

Why contribute to the repression by denying cross posting?
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
Aioe
2020-04-05 11:50:19 UTC
Permalink
I for one would change to another newsserver if Aioe stopped all support
for crossposting.
i'm not planning to disable crosspost, even if it requires me to change a
line in a configuration file.
Sn!pe
2020-04-05 12:09:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Aioe
I for one would change to another newsserver if Aioe stopped all support
for crossposting.
i'm not planning to disable crosspost, even if it requires me to change a
line in a configuration file.
Is it just mission drift or personal aggrandisement?
--
Sn!pe
😉 Good Guy 😉
2020-04-05 12:37:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sn!pe
Is it just mission drift or personal aggrandisement?
Why not?  He owns and rns the servers so he can do whatever he likes.

People like you have destroyed these newsgroups.  Look at
"misc.survivalism".  It's full of filth.  Even this is completely destroyed:

alt.free.newsservers

People like you should die of chinese virus.
--
With over 1.2 billion devices now running Windows 10, customer
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.
Sn!pe
2020-04-05 13:19:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by 😉 Good Guy 😉
People like you should die of chinese virus.
[fu2: adn]
--
Sn!pe
Aioe
2020-04-05 12:59:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sn!pe
Is it just mission drift or personal aggrandisement?
it's simply useless at this point.
If abuse occurs in the use of the crosspost, i only prohibit the crosspost
in the groups involved
Grant Taylor
2020-04-05 17:48:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Aioe
i'm not planning to disable crosspost, even if it requires me to
change a line in a configuration file.
I support this position!
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
kensi
2020-04-06 02:25:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Aioe
Post by kensi
AIOE is suddenly rejecting crossposts to sci.physics. Why?
because crosspost if forbidden due abuses
A lame, schoolyard-level flame that happens to have arisen in a thread
crossposted between two *related* groups? *That*'s what all this fuss is
about?
--
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain
the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy." ~David Brooks
"I get fooled all the time by the constant hosiery parade
in here." ~Checkmate
Sn!pe
2020-04-06 08:23:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by kensi
Post by Aioe
Post by kensi
AIOE is suddenly rejecting crossposts to sci.physics. Why?
because crosspost if forbidden due abuses
A lame, schoolyard-level flame that happens to have arisen in a thread
crossposted between two *related* groups? *That*'s what all this fuss is
about?
Nice troll, Paul. Time for a boost now, eh?
--
Sn!pe
Adam H. Kerman
2020-04-04 20:35:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by kensi
AIOE is suddenly rejecting crossposts to sci.physics. Why?
You're the abuser, seamus.

hi seamus
Nomen Nescio
2020-04-04 22:37:07 UTC
Permalink
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